Competition is generally regarded as a good thing. When these people stay in the USA, they generally depress wages and send all the money they earn back to their home countries anyway, which does the rest of the US economy no good at all. Really I'm not sure we should even have any sort of H1-B program at all.
Not only that, it is clear that some of these people support foreign nationalism while at the same time saying the US shouldn't be nationalist, Its okay for China and India to look out for their people, but the US is "Racist" if it looks out for its people.
Hey, if it were ONLY the top of the folks in the fields, I don't think we'd have a problem with it...it is the drones coming over and sucking up the regular jobs there ARE people that can work on here...and driving wages down.
If we have the H1B or other visas only for those that make say over $130K/yr, then that would help things a great deal....that way we let in the brains, but keep out the drones...
I agree with this. There is a need for H1b's but there needs to be a minimum amount associated to make sure it truly is professionals. What also needs to be done is to tie that number to a specific index so that 20 years from now we are not in the same boat again.
Not just truly professionals, there needs to be no domestic talent which is unlikely because H1B's tend to have cookie cutter diplomas and actually learn from the domestic talent which supposedly doesn't exist. At the top or the bottom if there are people here who can do the job, including older more experienced people tech likes to discriminate against, there shouldn't be even 1 H1B until every one of them is employed.
Maybe because foreign students were brought up to understand that education is a privilege, not a right, and they actually want to be in the classroom and want to learn?
The American kids just want to pay their tuition and get a passing grade, in between weekends of partying.
if you think he is over generalising then that means you technically agree it is generally true, just that it does not mean everyone is like that. Just pointing that out.
I would say he is just looking at a small set of bad examples and then claiming the entire population is just as bad, which means he is an asshole and you agreeing with him as much of an asshole.
My sister studied in her home country Economics, then a Masters in the field, she also was a statistics teacher there 6 years in a high profile University. She came to the USA and go a degree from Harvard, and later did statistics class in a University in Florida - she didn't earn enough to pay parking expenses, but did it for two years. She became dissapointed, because she had to pass mist everyone, and the students wanted to kniw exactly what was going to the test. She quickly learned they eant to pass, a
What I don't understand is how foreign students can be taught by our schools, why can't american kids learn from them as well?
Because there are not enough people in the U.S. that are interested in tech, so they choose other career paths.
TFS:
Otherwise, we train workers from countries like China and India and then send them back to those countries to set up tech ecosystems that compete with Silicon Valley.
The simple solution, don't allow student visas from other countries! Those foreigners can't learn from our schools and then go back and create tech ecosystems if they can't get into our schools.
"Because there are not enough people in the U.S. that are interested in tech"
On the contrary, there are plenty and american kids do learn (about as well as anyone, tech is a field where degrees are useless in most areas and people begin learning on the job). There is no shortage of tech talent in the US, this is a total fabrication. There IS some level of scarcity in the sense that there are few enough talented people out there that they can command high salaries and have leverage at the bargaining table, that is what these companies want to fix.
That sounds so much like the Malaysian system... see how that worked out for them?
Not many countries have Ex PM who would call their largest ethnic group lazy.... repeatedly: http://m.todayonline.com/world/asia/mahathir-defends-lazy-malays-remarks
Yep! Way to go. Just shut the door and give your back to what as been the main succes factor to the usa education system. You must push back all foreigners, students and teachers, after all who needs the next Einstein or Fermi to teach in an american college? Lets do this and we'll see how it plays out, what could go wrong?
Or just good people who want the job driving the wages down.
I personally just took a job last month, where I told them out right, I want the Software Engineering job they are offering, and in addition to everything I'll bring to the table, that I also offered to work for them for a less than market rate (Basically a 50% paycut from previous job and about 20% under median rates).
Needless to say, I got the job. And also encouraging friends to start doing the same. If we want to compete with those that want to
I personally just took a job last month, where I told them out right, I want the Software Engineering job they are offering, and in addition to everything I'll bring to the table, that I also offered to work for them for a less than market rate (Basically a 50% paycut from previous job and about 20% under median rates).
Needless to say, I got the job. And also encouraging friends to start doing the same. If we want to compete with those that want to work for less, we need to be willing to work for less. And I chose work for a lot less money, at a job I'll enjoy.
You've discovered the approach that everybody in academia uses, which is why academic positions pay (at most) half of what industry positions pay.
Did your living expenses halve themselves to match your income? Devaluing your skills for the win! The management, who aren't in a race to the bottom, really appreciate the money you've freed up for their extra bonuses.
Thought this was satire, then read your other posts.
You are advocating for deflation and a recession. If your technical skills are anything like your understanding of basic economics, then you will end up costing that suckered company a lot more than the cost of your salary. Jesus Christ.
I know people in certain VERY new fields where american companies have more job openings than there are qualified people on earth for those jobs. These jobs would all pay well in excess of $150K/year and would not cost any american a job. It would actually create a lot more job for americans since each engineer/scientist hired usually results in more support jobs at the company (due to being able to make more products).
However due to how the H1-B system is abused it is really hard to get the people you need
"I know people in certain VERY new fields where american companies have more job openings than there are qualified people on earth for those jobs."
Then you probably have an dramatically over inflated sense of qualified. There are likely dozens of other professions people could step out of and adapt under the tutelage of anyone that dramatically over inflated definition includes and do just fine in far far less than five years. A huge part of the problem is companies need to develop the talent they need and instead they are trying to dump the job on universities. The method of learning used in universities is the antithesis of the mindset and kind of skill at learning that is the defining characteristic of someone with the talent to perform the tasks most of these H1B's are performing well.
Being unqualified and having to figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly is exactly what is creating the environment which cultivates the talents we are looking for. We are perfectly capable of hiring untested and unqualified talent and throwing into the fire under experienced people here if we drop this mindset that every seat must be filled with a god and the ageism that pushes out the best talent in the industry to shape those inexperienced people.
Right you are! If there is no domestic talent why are they required to train their H1B replacement before getting the boot in the... How many of us have gone through this from time to time?
The US never need H1Bs, we were doing better without cheap exploitable low quality labor.
The visa program in the US is severely broken and should be shutdown now.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Friday February 03, 2017 @03:38PM (#53797643)
Hey, if it were ONLY the top of the folks in the fields, I don't think we'd have a problem with it...it is the drones coming over and sucking up the regular jobs there ARE people that can work on here.
This, exactly this.
In my team, we have two Indians on F1-OPT visas, who tried to get an H1-B in April. Both did not get selected in the lottery. These guys are newgrads, and very, very mediocre as wel. Definitely not top of the top, more top of the bottom. We had better candidates who were also citizens, but HR decided to hire these two because they are nice and cheap and we should be able to train them ourselves. It's been 18 months and they have yet to become productive.
Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
That is an utterly unAmerican thing to say, and quite frankly treasonous. Letting HR make your hiring decisions is a fundamental part of how American corporations work.
That is an utterly unAmerican thing to say, and quite frankly treasonous. Letting HR make your hiring decisions is a fundamental part of how American corporations work.
I work at an American tech company in Silicon Valley. I have never had HR tell me that we should hire one candidate over another. HR's job is to be the recruiter. To sift through the resumes, and find potential candidates to bring in for interviews. It is the job of the interviewing team, and the team manager to decide who they want to hire. Only then, does the hiring manager work with HR to determine the salary they are willing to offer.
HR's job is to be the recruiter. To sift through the resumes, and find potential candidates to bring in for interviews.
HR's job is to apply a simple string matching algorithm to the incoming resumes and pass along the ones that have the most matches to the posting, typos and all. How can you possibly be a project lead or senior scientist if you don't list Microsot [sic] Office on your resume? And Facebook isn't going to post to itself all day, after all...
If you're just looking at the applications that you're getting from HR, you're missing out on almost all of the cream.
Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
Agreed. If HR is making your hiring decisions, no wonder you have shitty talent. This is not an H1-B issue, this is a you and your company are doing it wrong issue.
HR is just there to process the paperwork and make sure employees know the rules. If they are doing anything else, then the other managers of the company need to bludgeon HR into submission (figuratively, of course).
If HR isn't' doing the hiring then what do we need HR for?
HR doesn't work for you. They work for corporate. HR's job is to prevent employees from successfully suing the company. Anything beyond that you are told is a lie, illusion or coincidence.
Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
And this is the crux of the problem. PhBs (per Dilbert) and HR making hiring decisions. I'm retired from one of the top defense contractors - I constantly saw totally unqualified candidates and hires. Bosses and idiot new hires who tried to convert 2M lines of MatLab/Simulink code (which produced a binary) to MathCAD! No, I'm not jesting - a MathCAD sales sails droid got to a Veep about how MathCAD was cheaper than MatLab/Simulink and told him it could replace it. These alternative facts propagated do
It is truly a farce.. Your example is perfect for how its being used... while the people that interface with the government keep saying there isn't enough homegrown talent to fill the job but yet companies are hiring for lower salaries..
if they want talent that is not available in the US they should be willing to pay wages in the upper 10%(ish) of the field..
Companies that use HB1 visa's should also pay a higher tax rate to offset the damage they are doing to the economy... After all if the "Talent" is that
And yet you said yourself, they're not on H1-B. F-1OPT is specifically for people in their position - who have studied here and want to get practical experience in the workforce. If you don't like them, blame whoever hired them.
We even have a special visa just for that situation too. the h1-o visa. The b visa is nothing more than a way to depress wages in most areas.
I recently went through a layoff. All 20 of the h1b guys found new jobs within a week. The ranged from meh programmers to 'just hire them don't worry about it' The 10 or so Americans. 7 took MUCH less paying jobs and it took them 6 months. 3 are still looking. 2 of those 3 are *very* good programmers. The kind of programmer you say 'oh yeah hire that guy he is
I have a problem with it at the top and bottom, we have people here who can work both at the top AND the bottom of fields. The proposed changes don't cut the number outright, they just cut the financial incentive to use H1Bs when you could use domestic talent at domestic wages. We have people here who can fill the top positions, they have to send their people here to learn how to do the work from us. Just put a stop to the age discrimination in tech and the talent pool opens dramatically with the added bonus
I agree with the concept of the H1B--it allows US companies to recruit top talent from around the world. But I have a hard time believing that there are 65,000-85,000 people a year [uscis.gov] who fit that description. Heck, "Operation Paperclip" [wikipedia.org] only brought in 1500 people and we started a space program with that!
I agree with the concept of the H1B--it allows US companies to recruit top talent from around the world. But I have a hard time believing that there are 65,000-85,000 people a year [uscis.gov] who fit that description. Heck, "Operation Paperclip" [wikipedia.org] only brought in 1500 people and we started a space program with that!
H1B is not about top talent. That's the O1 program and there is no limit on those visas. Ditto on investor visas. H1B is for depressing the labor wage of any industry that would otherwise spike up due to demand.
As I have said a number of times even paying a fixed relatively large salary like that, while better than what we have now, I feel doesn't go far enough. And no I am not being sarcastic. I like to contact my congress critters from time to time on this issue and in doing so I like to use the arguments that tech CEOs use. You know that there is a shortage, these people are critical, we can't find any American with the skills, etc. as well as pointing out what the H-1B program is for. Why not use their own rh
What's the point of sending them a letter littered with your impressions? You care enough about it to write, but not enough about it to provide any kind of data to back up your back napkin claims? All that is, is like, your opinion, man.
As an american, in the tech sector - I am actively trying to drive down wages in the Tech sector. I put myself, and others to take jobs at state median wages (So 55k for a Sr Software Engineer in California). It makes us more marketable. We can command any position we desire, (they get a $180k value for $55k). It shows that Americans are willing to work for reasonable wages, rather than inflated "We're tech" wages. Suitable for longer term. And, it allows us to start developing market forces, applications, a
That's ridiculous. $55k isn't a real wage in much of the US, around here you need double that if you want to buy a house and at least that for a decent place to live.
The companies can afford far more than that if they're bit expecting to support the leech class.
Sorry, but I didn't dedicate my life to software engineering to allow myself to be exploited for somebody else's gain. And in case you're wondering, no, I do not have difficulty finding work at a wage I believe to be fair.
The problem is that the quality of H1B workers is generally poor. Most of them are constantly on the phone asking for assistance with a job they are supposed to have qualifications for. All one has to do is look at the advancement that the US had achieved before the tax incentive to hire visa workers.
If we have the H1B or other visas only for those that make say over $130K/yr, then that would help things a great deal....that way we let in the brains, but keep out the drones...
If our real goal is to increase the number of workers who can fill those $130k/yr jobs we most likely need to bring those workers to the US far earlier than when they can command that kind of salary (outside of Silicon Valley that is). The 24 year olds making $80k/yr today are the future 34 year olds making $150k/yr. They will arguably build more experience in the US than in their home countries, so we need both current elite workers and future elite workers to come to the US via our various immigration pro
When it's got to the "why bother trying" situation it's a bit of a problem. Back when I was an undergraduate the introductory CS subject was the one engineering students enrolled in to meet girls (less than 1% female vs 51%). Now there is a much greater percentage of women studying first year engineering than CS. The tedious "bro" culture where people only employ those who may as well be clones of themselves and a pile of other things resulted in the women leaving the IT sector not being replaced. I see m
The people trying to sell us on H1B's are always giving these examples of high-end, specialized career jobs where you really might have a tough time finding enough qualified people in America. But the H1B owners I actually witness doing jobs are taking up an awful lot of "rank and file I.T." positions doing basic coding, web design, computer or network support, or server support roles.
Furthermore, it doesn't really make sense that our colleges and universities are supposedly "good"
Wrong. Kill the H1B program all together. H1B depresses wages by not allowing that employee to freely move. IOW, they are vertual slaves.
Instead, add another 15k green cards as well as move another 10k to a program in which companies can sponsor ppl to come over, but may not make any deals with them regarding length of employment or pay or future hikes, etc.
Also, only companies that have HQ here may use this service. IOW, if a subsidiary of a foreign company, or you are a foreign company, you get no say
First, I agree with the premise that it should be us first.
However, this is simply free market. They're willing to work for less and do the crapper jobs. Isn't this what the right wing wants? Less regulation? Granted, removing minimum wage would help since the companies can also pay citizens pennies too.
Somebody on/. mentioned the proposal is in the works to instead of lottery simply sort the H-1B applicants by salary. Hiring a $40K wage slave? Back of the line. A $200K PhD genius? Front of the line. The brilliance of it is forces the companies to compete, driving H-1B wages up for top talent. For everyone else, if you need to gamble on $100K for your H-1B who may not get in the 50,000 limit or you pay $90K to hire locally, then the choice is clear.
Btw for people who say there's no local talent -- I imagi
In addition, US nationalism or "putting America first" is the only way that America will become great again. Donald J Trump will go down in history as the greatest president since Anthony Jackson and I expect that we'll see him on currency within the decade.
Lol! You wingnuts are so cute when you're delusional.
Trump will fail spectacularly because he can't work with people. He thinks everyone works for him. He can't even coordinate his own party's direction or keep his administration on the same page.
The tragedy is it will take us 20 years to clean up Trump's mess, provided we live that long.
Lil' Blakey is just pissed that he will no longer be able to circumvent his responsibilities as an American, bypassing other Americans to hire foreign developers at $30K any more.
Not only that, it is clear that some of these people support foreign nationalism while at the same time saying the US shouldn't be nationalist, Its okay for China and India to look out for their people, but the US is "Racist" if it looks out for its people.
There are probably a great number of things the Chinese and Indian governments do which US citizens should rightfully be outraged and ashamed of if the US government started following suit, not just nationalist protectionism.
Oooh, look poor old Arch Mike is off his meds again, spouting his alt-right crap. You realise youre an irrelevant deluded cunt dont you Mike, if it wasnt for the fat fuck 4chan Trump trolls, you would be at -1.
You should be more concerned with being a good role model. Nationalism is only a force for good when its interests happen to align with the preservation or advancement of civilization. Using it as justification to marginalize a group of underpaid, exploited fellow nerds is foolish, and will not be viewed kindly by history. It also won't give anyone back their jobs; those will just leave with the companies that created them, along with the GDP.
I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only that, it is clear that some of these people support foreign nationalism while at the same time saying the US shouldn't be nationalist, Its okay for China and India to look out for their people, but the US is "Racist" if it looks out for its people.
Re: (Score:-1, Flamebait)
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Regarding qualifications. Much of it has to do with experience. While our college grads can't find work = can't build experience.
Its a catch 22 to keep producing foreign workers that send all thier money OUT of the USA.
This is a problem at so many levels.
Thank you president trump for rackling this truely racist issue discriminating against our own citizens
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Exterminate all smelly indo-chimps with phony degrees out of smelly indian jungles. Get out of my country parasites before I start shooting you.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
^ Posted by a liberal.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
When you post stuff like that you know you're not really anonymous right? Let's hope the NSA picks up on you.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
I hope you meant with a watergun
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
If we have the H1B or other visas only for those that make say over $130K/yr, then that would help things a great deal....that way we let in the brains, but keep out the drones...
Re: (Score:1)
I agree with this. There is a need for H1b's but there needs to be a minimum amount associated to make sure it truly is professionals. What also needs to be done is to tie that number to a specific index so that 20 years from now we are not in the same boat again.
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Maybe because foreign students were brought up to understand that education is a privilege, not a right, and they actually want to be in the classroom and want to learn?
The American kids just want to pay their tuition and get a passing grade, in between weekends of partying.
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You are seriously over-generalizing, but hey, it makes you feel better about your anti-American prejudice, doesn't it?
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
if you think he is over generalising then that means you technically agree it is generally true, just that it does not mean everyone is like that. Just pointing that out.
I would say he is just looking at a small set of bad examples and then claiming the entire population is just as bad, which means he is an asshole and you agreeing with him as much of an asshole.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
My sister studied in her home country Economics, then a Masters in the field, she also was a statistics teacher there 6 years in a high profile University. She came to the USA and go a degree from Harvard, and later did statistics class in a University in Florida - she didn't earn enough to pay parking expenses, but did it for two years. She became dissapointed, because she had to pass mist everyone, and the students wanted to kniw exactly what was going to the test. She quickly learned they eant to pass, a
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What I don't understand is how foreign students can be taught by our schools, why can't american kids learn from them as well?
Because there are not enough people in the U.S. that are interested in tech, so they choose other career paths.
TFS:
Otherwise, we train workers from countries like China and India and then send them back to those countries to set up tech ecosystems that compete with Silicon Valley.
The simple solution, don't allow student visas from other countries! Those foreigners can't learn from our schools and then go back and create tech ecosystems if they can't get into our schools.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
That would drive the costs of our schools down too. This is a problem at so many levels.
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
On the contrary, there are plenty and american kids do learn (about as well as anyone, tech is a field where degrees are useless in most areas and people begin learning on the job). There is no shortage of tech talent in the US, this is a total fabrication. There IS some level of scarcity in the sense that there are few enough talented people out there that they can command high salaries and have leverage at the bargaining table, that is what these companies want to fix.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
That sounds so much like the Malaysian system... see how that worked out for them?
Not many countries have Ex PM who would call their largest ethnic group lazy.... repeatedly:
http://m.todayonline.com/world/asia/mahathir-defends-lazy-malays-remarks
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Yep! Way to go. Just shut the door and give your back to what as been the main succes factor to the usa education system. You must push back all foreigners, students and teachers, after all who needs the next Einstein or Fermi to teach in an american college? Lets do this and we'll see how it plays out, what could go wrong?
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Or just good people who want the job driving the wages down.
I personally just took a job last month, where I told them out right, I want the Software Engineering job they are offering, and in addition to everything I'll bring to the table, that I also offered to work for them for a less than market rate (Basically a 50% paycut from previous job and about 20% under median rates).
Needless to say, I got the job. And also encouraging friends to start doing the same.
If we want to compete with those that want to
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Starting with YOU!
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Yes, because people should be taxed on money they didn't make! You are a dumb ass.
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I personally just took a job last month, where I told them out right, I want the Software Engineering job they are offering, and in addition to everything I'll bring to the table, that I also offered to work for them for a less than market rate (Basically a 50% paycut from previous job and about 20% under median rates).
Needless to say, I got the job. And also encouraging friends to start doing the same.
If we want to compete with those that want to work for less, we need to be willing to work for less.
And I chose work for a lot less money, at a job I'll enjoy.
You've discovered the approach that everybody in academia uses, which is why academic positions pay (at most) half of what industry positions pay.
Did your living expenses halve themselves to match your income? Devaluing your skills for the win! The management, who aren't in a race to the bottom, really appreciate the money you've freed up for their extra bonuses.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Cool!
You know, you'd help save the environment and consume less if you killed yourself.
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Thought this was satire, then read your other posts.
You are advocating for deflation and a recession. If your technical skills are anything like your understanding of basic economics, then you will end up costing that suckered company a lot more than the cost of your salary. Jesus Christ.
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I know people in certain VERY new fields where american companies have more job openings than there are qualified people on earth for those jobs. These jobs would all pay well in excess of $150K/year and would not cost any american a job. It would actually create a lot more job for americans since each engineer/scientist hired usually results in more support jobs at the company (due to being able to make more products).
However due to how the H1-B system is abused it is really hard to get the people you need
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
Then you probably have an dramatically over inflated sense of qualified. There are likely dozens of other professions people could step out of and adapt under the tutelage of anyone that dramatically over inflated definition includes and do just fine in far far less than five years. A huge part of the problem is companies need to develop the talent they need and instead they are trying to dump the job on universities. The method of learning used in universities is the antithesis of the mindset and kind of skill at learning that is the defining characteristic of someone with the talent to perform the tasks most of these H1B's are performing well.
Being unqualified and having to figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly is exactly what is creating the environment which cultivates the talents we are looking for. We are perfectly capable of hiring untested and unqualified talent and throwing into the fire under experienced people here if we drop this mindset that every seat must be filled with a god and the ageism that pushes out the best talent in the industry to shape those inexperienced people.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
It's all about money. Higher tuitions for out of state and so the schools focus on that and whom can pay it.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Right you are! If there is no domestic talent why are they required to train their H1B replacement before getting the boot in the... How many of us have gone through this from time to time?
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Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Informative)
Hey, if it were ONLY the top of the folks in the fields, I don't think we'd have a problem with it...it is the drones coming over and sucking up the regular jobs there ARE people that can work on here.
This, exactly this.
In my team, we have two Indians on F1-OPT visas, who tried to get an H1-B in April. Both did not get selected in the lottery. These guys are newgrads, and very, very mediocre as wel. Definitely not top of the top, more top of the bottom. We had better candidates who were also citizens, but HR decided to hire these two because they are nice and cheap and we should be able to train them ourselves. It's been 18 months and they have yet to become productive.
H1-B is a farce.
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Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
That is an utterly unAmerican thing to say, and quite frankly treasonous. Letting HR make your hiring decisions is a fundamental part of how American corporations work.
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That is an utterly unAmerican thing to say, and quite frankly treasonous. Letting HR make your hiring decisions is a fundamental part of how American corporations work.
I work at an American tech company in Silicon Valley. I have never had HR tell me that we should hire one candidate over another. HR's job is to be the recruiter. To sift through the resumes, and find potential candidates to bring in for interviews. It is the job of the interviewing team, and the team manager to decide who they want to hire. Only then, does the hiring manager work with HR to determine the salary they are willing to offer.
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HR's job is to be the recruiter. To sift through the resumes, and find potential candidates to bring in for interviews.
HR's job is to apply a simple string matching algorithm to the incoming resumes and pass along the ones that have the most matches to the posting, typos and all. How can you possibly be a project lead or senior scientist if you don't list Microsot [sic] Office on your resume? And Facebook isn't going to post to itself all day, after all...
If you're just looking at the applications that you're getting from HR, you're missing out on almost all of the cream.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
The problem starts when HR does start telling you who to hire, sometimes from executive pressure.
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Quite true in most corporations.
HR really means Hindering Resources...
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+1 Sad.
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Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
Agreed. If HR is making your hiring decisions, no wonder you have shitty talent. This is not an H1-B issue, this is a you and your company are doing it wrong issue.
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HR is just there to process the paperwork and make sure employees know the rules. If they are doing anything else, then the other managers of the company need to bludgeon HR into submission (figuratively, of course).
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
They are also important for sacking people following all the correct rules amd regulations. This is probably their most important job
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If HR isn't' doing the hiring then what do we need HR for?
HR doesn't work for you. They work for corporate. HR's job is to prevent employees from successfully suing the company. Anything beyond that you are told is a lie, illusion or coincidence.
hiring (Score:0)
Maybe you shouldn't let HR make your hiring decisions.
And this is the crux of the problem. PhBs (per Dilbert) and HR making hiring decisions. I'm retired from one of the top defense contractors - I constantly saw totally unqualified candidates and hires. Bosses and idiot new hires who tried to convert 2M lines of MatLab/Simulink code (which produced a binary) to MathCAD! No, I'm not jesting - a MathCAD sales sails droid got to a Veep about how MathCAD was cheaper than MatLab/Simulink and told him it could replace it. These alternative facts propagated do
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It is truly a farce.. Your example is perfect for how its being used... while the people that interface with the government keep saying there isn't enough homegrown talent to fill the job but yet companies are hiring for lower salaries..
if they want talent that is not available in the US they should be willing to pay wages in the upper 10%(ish) of the field..
Companies that use HB1 visa's should also pay a higher tax rate to offset the damage they are doing to the economy... After all if the "Talent" is that
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And yet you said yourself, they're not on H1-B. F-1OPT is specifically for people in their position - who have studied here and want to get practical experience in the workforce. If you don't like them, blame whoever hired them.
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We even have a special visa just for that situation too. the h1-o visa. The b visa is nothing more than a way to depress wages in most areas.
I recently went through a layoff. All 20 of the h1b guys found new jobs within a week. The ranged from meh programmers to 'just hire them don't worry about it' The 10 or so Americans. 7 took MUCH less paying jobs and it took them 6 months. 3 are still looking. 2 of those 3 are *very* good programmers. The kind of programmer you say 'oh yeah hire that guy he is
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
Who wants to go into tech just to compete with the cheap foreigner. Its a losers game. And a self perpetuating system.
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We have people here who can fill the top positions, they have to send their people here to learn how to do the work from us. Just put a stop to the age discrimination in tech and the talent pool opens dramatically with the added bonus
Re:I don't see the problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly.
I agree with the concept of the H1B--it allows US companies to recruit top talent from around the world. But I have a hard time believing that there are 65,000-85,000 people a year [uscis.gov] who fit that description. Heck, "Operation Paperclip" [wikipedia.org] only brought in 1500 people and we started a space program with that!
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Exactly.
I agree with the concept of the H1B--it allows US companies to recruit top talent from around the world. But I have a hard time believing that there are 65,000-85,000 people a year [uscis.gov] who fit that description. Heck, "Operation Paperclip" [wikipedia.org] only brought in 1500 people and we started a space program with that!
H1B is not about top talent. That's the O1 program and there is no limit on those visas. Ditto on investor visas. H1B is for depressing the labor wage of any industry that would otherwise spike up due to demand.
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What's the point of sending them a letter littered with your impressions? You care enough about it to write, but not enough about it to provide any kind of data to back up your back napkin claims? All that is, is like, your opinion, man.
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As an american, in the tech sector - I am actively trying to drive down wages in the Tech sector. .
I put myself, and others to take jobs at state median wages (So 55k for a Sr Software Engineer in California)
It makes us more marketable. We can command any position we desire, (they get a $180k value for $55k).
It shows that Americans are willing to work for reasonable wages, rather than inflated "We're tech" wages. Suitable for longer term.
And, it allows us to start developing market forces, applications, a
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Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
That's ridiculous. $55k isn't a real wage in much of the US, around here you need double that if you want to buy a house and at least that for a decent place to live.
The companies can afford far more than that if they're bit expecting to support the leech class.
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If we have the H1B or other visas only for those that make say over $130K/yr, then that would help things a great deal....that way we let in the brains, but keep out the drones...
If our real goal is to increase the number of workers who can fill those $130k/yr jobs we most likely need to bring those workers to the US far earlier than when they can command that kind of salary (outside of Silicon Valley that is). The 24 year olds making $80k/yr today are the future 34 year olds making $150k/yr. They will arguably build more experience in the US than in their home countries, so we need both current elite workers and future elite workers to come to the US via our various immigration pro
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Back when I was an undergraduate the introductory CS subject was the one engineering students enrolled in to meet girls (less than 1% female vs 51%). Now there is a much greater percentage of women studying first year engineering than CS. The tedious "bro" culture where people only employ those who may as well be clones of themselves and a pile of other things resulted in the women leaving the IT sector not being replaced. I see m
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That's what I think, too.
The people trying to sell us on H1B's are always giving these examples of high-end, specialized career jobs where you really might have a tough time finding enough qualified people in America. But the H1B owners I actually witness doing jobs are taking up an awful lot of "rank and file I.T." positions doing basic coding, web design, computer or network support, or server support roles.
Furthermore, it doesn't really make sense that our colleges and universities are supposedly "good"
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:2)
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:0)
First, I agree with the premise that it should be us first.
However, this is simply free market. They're willing to work for less and do the crapper jobs. Isn't this what the right wing wants? Less regulation? Granted, removing minimum wage would help since the companies can also pay citizens pennies too.
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Somebody on /. mentioned the proposal is in the works to instead of lottery simply sort the H-1B applicants by salary. Hiring a $40K wage slave? Back of the line. A $200K PhD genius? Front of the line. The brilliance of it is forces the companies to compete, driving H-1B wages up for top talent. For everyone else, if you need to gamble on $100K for your H-1B who may not get in the 50,000 limit or you pay $90K to hire locally, then the choice is clear.
Btw for people who say there's no local talent -- I imagi
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In addition, US nationalism or "putting America first" is the only way that America will become great again. Donald J Trump will go down in history as the greatest president since Anthony Jackson and I expect that we'll see him on currency within the decade.
- Archangel Michael -
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Lol! You wingnuts are so cute when you're delusional.
Trump will fail spectacularly because he can't work with people. He thinks everyone works for him. He can't even coordinate his own party's direction or keep his administration on the same page.
The tragedy is it will take us 20 years to clean up Trump's mess, provided we live that long.
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Holy shit do you ever have a persecution complex!
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Lil' Blakey is just pissed that he will no longer be able to circumvent his responsibilities as an American, bypassing other Americans to hire foreign developers at $30K any more.
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Not only that, it is clear that some of these people support foreign nationalism while at the same time saying the US shouldn't be nationalist, Its okay for China and India to look out for their people, but the US is "Racist" if it looks out for its people.
There are probably a great number of things the Chinese and Indian governments do which US citizens should rightfully be outraged and ashamed of if the US government started following suit, not just nationalist protectionism.
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Oooh, look poor old Arch Mike is off his meds again, spouting his alt-right crap. You realise youre an irrelevant deluded cunt dont you Mike, if it wasnt for the fat fuck 4chan Trump trolls, you would be at -1.
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:2)
Re: I don't see the problem. (Score:2)
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Here here ...angel.
It's even worse (Score:1)