Will you be using a mobile payment system?
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Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:5, Informative)
In Japan I heard you could pay for things all day wearing nothing but a cellphone.
Also kinda suspicious about how big the Disney MagicBand + Apple Pay announcement last year was, considering you could already do do pretty much the same thing at any sizable Korean sauna with your locker key wristband.
The U.S. doesn't even really have to wait to see if any particular technology system will "win". It's all just business dealings from here on out.
Re:Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:5, Funny)
I know that the Japanese are much more casual about skin than most westerners, but isn't that going a tad far?
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OK, a tablet then. And a few rubber bands to keep it in place.
Re:Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:5, Interesting)
The key difference between Japan and the US though, at least from what I've heard, is that in the US they want to tie payments directly to bank accounts or credit cards. In Japan this didn't happen on most payment systems. If you went into a store or paid for a cab with your phone, the money didn't come out of your bank account or credit directly. You would have to charge your electronic payment account with money from your bank account or your credit card first before you could use any money. I like this system because it allowed for a lot better management of funds and avoided potentially using more than you thought you had.
Re:Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:5, Insightful)
I am guessing the reason why this hasn't hit the US in this form is that there is good money to be made by banks if users overdraw, triggering fees and credit dings (which make the banks more money because it means they have a reason to hike interest rates.) There is also the fact that a bank makes interest if someone leaves cushion money in the account so this doesn't happen.
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Re: Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:2)
Well, it seems that banks are definitely on board now. I guess the fact that that all the major systems treat the transactions as quasi-debit transactions and only approve if you have funds available, seems to have swayed the banks general opinion. In other words, when told they had basically zero risk of doing anything but making boatloads of money, the banks withdrew their objections.
Re:Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:4, Interesting)
All the competing systems became compatible years ago. For example Japan Rail had Suica, but the Metro had their own system (was it Edy? I forget). After a short time you could use either card on both, and on the buses and in convenience stores.
The "stored value" model where you load the card up with money before hand is nice, the only down side being that on some of the cards you can only use cash. Suica is like that, unless you also have their credit card. The other down side is that if you lose the card you lose the money on it (the card isn't tied to you, you can buy one in cash and there is no registration etc. so no way to recover funds from a lost one), and you can have up to 20,000 yen on most of them.
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The Suica phone app for instance, I could link my credit card to it and charge up the "virtual card" on it at any moment. There was also an option to link it to your bank account I think. Edy has a similar service if I remember correctly.
Cards are still in wide use but I think by the time I get back to Japan in 3-5 years; I'll probably be seeing far more people using their phones instead of a card
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20,000 yen is less than $200 USD. Plenty of people carry around cash amounts in excess of $200 USD that they could also lose.
Having Apple Pay or similar tied to a credit card provides protection from unauthorized purchases/fraud while also allowing a much higher limit than $200 USD.
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Having Apple Pay or similar tied to a credit card provides protection from unauthorized purchases/fraud while also allowing a much higher limit than $200 USD.
But that still doesn't address the major privacy issues around these systems. It's that aspect which is the reason I won't touch these sorts of payment methods with a ten foot pole.
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Cameras and license plate readers, and Bluetooth readers, have already automated the data capture of your travels and no longer require you to voluntarily participate by running a state-provided transponder.
You're in a public place, in a publicly licensed vehicle, on a public road, and technology means that data is now a matter of public record. Welcome home, Winston Smith.
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The key difference between Japan and the US though, at least from what I've heard, is that in the US they want to tie payments directly to bank accounts or credit cards.
There's nothing stopping you from opening another checking account just for use with mobile payment system and transferring money from your primary account as needed. So you could argue the US system is more flexible and the Japanese system prevents you from just using one account if you want that. You might have to pay a little for a checking account if you don't keep a minimum balance though. Does anyone offer free checking any more?
Re:Thought it was already the norm abroad (Score:5, Informative)
Is that really different from US toll bridges and toll roads? Here in Washington we have the GoodToGo pass, which you load up with money and is automatically debited when you trigger a sensor...and if you're sane, you set it up to automatically pull from your bank account whenever it drops below a certain number. Hell, it's hard to set it up without that system. It loads it $30 at a time, which reduces expense for the transit authority (I assume) because there's less bank transactions.
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I think the reason has to do with the fact that the express highways in Japan are incredibly expensive. (10-20 mile span of road could cost you $30-50). Going from Osaka to Tokyo via the express highway would cost y
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if you're sane, you set it up to automatically pull from your bank account whenever it drops below a certain number.
I disagree. If you're sane, you don't use those things at all.
privacy expectations (Score:3)
users in the USA have different privacy and control expectations.
the **actual technology** to make mobile payments has been around for at least 20 years, approx.
it's about unscrupulous business people in dense organizations "implement" it as a "solution" on a cost/profit basis...
if US banks and other big biz would just stop forever with the notion of sucking user data for services this would all end very quickly
we have the tech to make it secure
All payment systems are mobile (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never had any problem carrying cash with me, and that's both mobile and mostly anonymous.
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Possible heresy ahead: it is better at being the Bitcoin than the real McCoy.
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If only you could teleport it to someone instantly over the internet!
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And heck, we have Paypal already for that necessity.
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Years ago, I had to move about $2K between two banks every week. The banks were only about 3 blocks apart. If I wrote a check, it could be delayed by up to a week.
After a few weeks of that, I decided to just walk into the first bank, withdraw the cash, walk to the second bank and deposit it. Every single fucking time I did it, there was always some hassle.
On several occasions, I explained to both bank managers and various middle managers, why I was doing it (because they both sucked). Something woul
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It may be mobile, but not anonymous with a camera on every ceiling.
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i sold my car to an Egyptian who had recently moved to the USA. she paid me with a several inches thick envelope of $100 bills. i had a bit of a problem with carrying that cash with me. it was pretty mobile and anonymous...but in all the wrong ways. i immediately went to the bank.
OTOH, a secure payment transfer would have been pretty nice.
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Businesses have to deal with extra security of handling cash, plus the risk of actual theft.
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It's also a lot more hassle because you have to get more cash from an ATM all the time and are stuck carrying cash/change around.
It's not much of a hassle, really. I pay cash for nearly everything, but I only need to run to an ATM every three days or so because I make sure to withdraw enough cash to last me that long. Carrying bills is hardly a big problem, and I avoid carrying coins at all by leaving them behind.
Businesses have to deal with extra security of handling cash, plus the risk of actual theft.
Not my problem. In fact, I don't see why I should be subjected to the problems of electronic payments just to relieve businesses of the problems of handling cash.
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The best part about cash is that a pair of light fingers will make your wallet disappear, and then you've got no recourse.
What did you think I meant by mostly anonymous? If someone takes your cash, you can't really call an authority and cancel their value, and you can't track what they do with it... but that means that someone else can't cancel your cash either, and they can't track you. There are serial numbers, so it's not perfectly anonymous, but few enough people look at them that it mostly doesn't matter.
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In California, it is not legal to surcharge for the use of a credit card, but it is legal to offer a discount for cash. The discounts I get average about as much as the rebates; sometimes they are substantial (an $1800 service fee reduced to $1600, for example).
Doubtful, all of the above. (Score:2, Interesting)
There is not one single reason why a mobile payment system is necessary, needed, or an improvement over cards. Not one.
It's just another case of pointless technology driven by a team of marketing people trying to find a point for it where there is none.
Good tech solves pre-existing real problems. Stupid tech looks to create problems or pretend there are problems where there are none.
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Thing is, creating problems in need of a solution is what large concerns turn to Madison Avenue for when market saturation stagnates growth.
Every great inventor or developer imagines he or she might solve one of the World's great problems, and then most wind up working on cures for halitosis and erectile dysfunction or addictive phone games for the subway.
Re:Doubtful, all of the above. (Score:4, Insightful)
There is not one single reason why a mobile payment system is necessary, needed, or an improvement over cards.
Yes there is - so a new bunch of parasites can skim off some of your money.
The cost of the new system won't come out of the profits of the retailers - it'll come out of your pocket. Or phone account or whatever.
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In USA all the credit card fraud done by the fact that a simple 16 digit number identifies the account, proves you very, very wrong
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I get that on every transaction on my credit card, under or over $100. There is nothing that says credit cards can't do that.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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As for why we tend to be conservative about certain types of new technology, it's because we've seen how many times products and services focus on their primary function and attracting users while not paying enough attention to the tedious and difficult things like security, privacy, and rigorous testing. Do you think we aren't interested in new technology, convenience, and cool concepts? O
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I've had Google Wallet on my Nexus 4 since 2012. I used it for like a month, until the novelty wore off. It's just plain easier to open my wallet, grab a credit card, and swipe it through the reader than it is to get out my phone, unlock, find the wallet app, unlock fumble with the NFC scanner that doesn't always work, hope I have a decent server connection, and etc. I found that 7 out of 10 times I tried to use it, I wound up putting my phone away and digging out my wallet just to avoid pissing off all
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And why not use it (or something similar)?
Because I already have enough businesses spying on what I do. I don't need to invite another one in on the game.
I don't have to carry around several different cards in my pocket to pay from different sources
Why would you have to carry multiple cards around? It seems that one would do the job quite nicely.
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Lets see, you advocate using a payment system made by google (aka the NSA), that only works on $500 devices that track everything you do and say, everywhere you go, turn you into a zombie and go obsolete as fast as a trendy woman's hat.
Hmm I wonder why technology people would be weary of such a scheme...
the year 2000 called, it wants people to WAKE UP from this always connected zombie phone madness!
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What advantages did you list?
You don't have to carry around 1 phone, well I only have 1 credit card why would I need more?
It is impossible to steal your payment information without stealing your phone, simply untrue your phone is a computer and it is quite possible to steal that information by installing a virus on it. Yes magnetic strips are insecure but if they made chip cards, without magnetic strips then that problem would be solved.
If my card gets stolen it is easy to cancel as well. I don't have to ch
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i would use Moble payments but i live too far from alabama.
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Credit card security is a joke everywhere. The system is just insecure by design. I don't understand why it is still used. Bank cards (EC/Maestro) are better in every way.
Outside the USA, there's no difference in security between these two things. That was the point.
The benefit is far more than marketing (Score:2)
We're skeptics because we see right through marketing drivel. Some technology makes sense. Some, like mobile payments, serves no practical purpose for the average consumer.
I can see why you posted AC, you were wouldn't want anyone to think you were really that stupid, right? Just trolling with an over the top utterly absurd statement, right?
I mean, replacing credit card numbers that have literally affected millions of average consumers through POS breeches, with a system just as easy to use as a CC only no
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Pull out credit card, it won't swipe because the magnetic strip is worn out
Try to pull out credit card, it's not there because you forgot your wallet
Pull out credit card, complete transaction while a skimmer steals your card info
No technology is perfect, you're just making up improbable things to be critical of here. If you don't have any legitimate argument against using mobile payments don't waste our time with this nonsense.
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Pull out your U.S. credit card, drop that credit card in my hand, and I'll quickly show you what a fucking moron you are
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He doesn't mean that he needs to carry multiple cards because merchants won't accept every card. That's hardly a problem any more if you're using Visa or Mastercard at least. He's saying that maybe he wants to use one card for business expenses and one card for personal expenses.Maybe he has a store card or rewards cards for other situations.
Cash (Score:4)
I'll stick with cash until some form of widely accepted "carry on your person" digital currency is available. Credit/debit/mobile payment methods are trackable, insecure, ripe for misuse by authorities and dependent on large interconnected networks that can go down (happened a few days ago while I was grocery shopping). They have their uses, especially where you are already using said networks (online purchases), but too much reliance on them is foolish.
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So, basically you will use cash until digital cash appears?
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I will do this, yes. All of the "digital wallets" are just proxies for using a card. I prefer to pay cash. If we get a digital option that replicates the advantages of cash, then I'll happily use that. Nothing like that currently exists or is even on the horizon yet.
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See, I have the opposite view. I like to have all my movements recorded and tracked so if I get falsely accused of something, I have an alibi I can reference.
"No, Detective, I was not in that alley when Joe Blow was killed. I was at Starbucks getting a latte. Here's my credit card record to prove it."
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Yeah, but the cash registers don't record anything. That eliminates all the automated tracking of your purchases which is 99% percent of the problem. It is still possible to track what you buy though manual investigation, but that would be true even without the ATM info (security camera correlated with register records, etc).
Lack of appropriate options gripe: (Score:2)
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I pay with a contactless credit card very frequently, which uses the same technology (at least outside the USA). I don't see the attraction for paying with my phone: I have to get something out of my pocket, and it's easier to touch a plastic card to a reader than unlock a phone, presumably open an app, authorise, etc.
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Re:Lack of appropriate options gripe: (Score:5, Informative)
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No, instead it exposes your payment information to Google or Apple.
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Right. So you need to trust one company with your payment information instead of hundreds of companies. You say it as if that isn't a huge improvement.
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No, instead it exposes your payment information to Google or Apple.
I don't know about Google wallet, but Apple doesn't have anyone's ApplePay information. It's stored on the device.
From https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/:
Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted, and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number, along with a transaction-specific dynamic security code, is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared by Apple with merchants or transmitted with payment.
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There will be no substitution (Score:2)
It's very unlikely that one technology will substitute the other, like computer and printers substituted typewriters, but they will be concurrent, like TV, cinema, radio &c. The mobile payments will be very popular for a while, till people become aware of the association between smartphones and the rise of anxiety disorder and stop carrying them.
What I'm worries about is... (Score:2)
all the apps out there that are asking for full access to everything on your phone. It seems that more and more apps coming out, require more access then before, and for no apperant reason other than the bullshit lines of "we need it to diagnose problems on the users end".
That is one of the biggest reasons why I will not use my mobile device to perform any banking/payments. At least not until I'm convinced that some random app can't grab all my information on the payment systems being used.
"WILL" be too fragmented? (Score:3)
Competition works well when all players adhere to certain standards. It doesn't work well when everyone does their damnedest to lock out the competition.
Personally, I find Samsung's announcement the most interesting so far; because while Google and Apple require the clearly unreasonable expectation that merchants won't actively disable NFC on their card readers, Samsung plans to work with existing card-swipe readers.
That should lead to an interesting legal showdown, eventually, because CurrentC forces exclusivity terms on their retailers, while retailers can't block Samsung's approach as easily as they could Google and Apple's.
Missing option (Score:2)
Never. (Except if cards count, which I already use daily.)
Reason: Mobile payment has no advantage over paying by card but lots of disadvantages.
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You can do the same thing with a house key. I don't see many people replacing their deadbolt with a phone-controlled lock.
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Actually create a physical key based on the one you took a picture of, which also requires special machinery to do.
Only if you count a file as "special equipment".
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Your assumption is wrong, because I'm using European debit cards for daily payments whereas the credit card stays safely locked at home. There are many ways of stealing the PIN code of debit cards those, e.g. tampered terminals or fake base stations, but none of them is as easy as making you download "Fart App 2.0" onto your Android or iPhone.
Similar protections to credit cards? (Score:2)
As long as I am not held liable for any fraud on my account, similar to credit card protections, sure.
Cash is king in my world (Score:2)
Why would I pay $50-75 a year to a credit card company, buy a $300-500 "smart phone", and pay $40-80/month for the "plan" for the phone just to be able to spend my own money?
If you've got money to waste, knock yourself out. I don't.
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Because a smartphone is something that nearly all of us already have for other reasons (an ultra-portable computer, a phone, a GPS, a music player, a watch, a camera, a flashlight, a gaming system, an email reader, an ebook reader, a video camera, a transistor radio...all in one handy unit)....so it's not $300 to $500 + $40..$80/month more than most people are already spending, it's $0 more.
Because not having a credit/debit card means that it's hard to shop online, and you have to make frequent trips to a "
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<SARCASM>
Ah, and *of course* no one could ever survive without shopping online. And no one could ever survive with being detached from the intarweeb while they *are* out shopping. And walking a block and a half to the bank machine or just skipping that step entirely and using a debit card is *absolutely* out of the question.
Your telco gives you the phone for free -- there is no extra charge padded on to your monthly bill. They're just really, really generous that way.
And everybody's existing
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Ah, yes, I ended up disabled by migraines and bi-polar because I "fucked up."
Nothing like the judgement of anonymous cowards who don't know their own ass from a hole in the ground.
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Just don't see the point (Score:2)
mobile payment systems are already broken (Score:2)
There's stories going round even now, at the "dawn" of the Apple payment thingy, that it's hopelessly compromised: http://www.popsci.com/apple-pa... [popsci.com] but apparently it's not the app itself that's broken, it's hte way it's implemented. Banks are all too eager to approve the addition of cards to random phone numbers, which opens the door to fraudsters getting hold of card numbers, and through a bit of ferreting around on Facebook and maybe throwing out a few seemingly innocent pop quizzes ("What's your cat's n
VISA, MasterCard, ApplePay, Google Wallet (Score:2)
I really don't see a difference between any of these in terms of functionality. The convenience factor is there because VISA, MC, AMEX, etc don't have cellphone apps. I suspect they are 5 years away from figuring out how they want to handle that sort fo thing in an interoperable way.
The incentive for the credit card companies will be that 18-25 crowd can use their phone to build up massive amounts of debt and pay absurd interest rates and fees on it.
Only safe form of payment is encrypted (Score:2)
Whether you use a card or a device, the only safe form of electronic payment is one that encrypts the data from your card or device all the way to the bank. You don't want the POS to be able to read it. The US is way behind the times on this and it took billion dollar scams for US banks to finally push chipped cards in the US, which Europe has had for years. This is the apathy and complacency which leads to so many problems. I saw a woman using a smartphone to pay and the smartphone would display a pattern
I already do! (Score:3)
Credit cards are superior (Score:2)
Credit cards are small, light, cheap to manufacture and I'm insured against loss should the number be compromised.
Mobile payment systems require me to carry an expensive device which can be damaged (dropped) or stolen. I am not insured against the loss of my phone.
Don't really see a downside (Score:2)
I use chip-and-pin today, do I really care if the "chip" ends up being a smart watch or cell phone? Not really. I just wouldn't allow it to pay without confirmation. On my own device I wouldn't mind using a fingerprint scanner instead of PIN either, just swipe my watch and push the "pay" button/scanner and I'm done. I have two debit cards today, I'm honestly not sure what the code on the second one is because I never use it.
Missing option? (Score:2)
Pizza delivery (Score:2)
I can pay my cab and my pizza delivery with my phone and my credit card, but not my Notary or my psy ;-) I need check. In my distophian future, I will need spare change to pay my pepsi machine, credit card for my gas, bus card for my bus commute, check for my psy, cell phone for the grocery, ....
hope somehow in the future somebody will find a way to have only one paiement system...
Apple Pay has been a disappointment so far (Score:2)
I tried using Apple Pay on my shiny new iPhone, but it's been a failure so far. I couldn't get my Bank Of America card to successfully add to my Passbook, and the fingerprint reader wouldn't work when I tried to pay for my lunch with another card.
I think that I'll want for the next iOS version before I bother trying this again.
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Missing Option: NEVER: Makes the phone a Target (Score:2)
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If my phone can install software basically I am not using it as a payment system.
If phone is authorized to take money out of my account, then I am not going to install some software from some random developer on it.
I do use internet banking but basically you can only transfer money between my account and pay predefined entities, without 2 factor authentication.
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Now, come on, you can't go telling people that they don't exist.
The correct dismissal here is "You're a rounding error."
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It doesn't count as violence if it's a cop beating a suspect, especially a black suspect.
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Maybe I'm out of the loop on this one. What's wrong with having a bank account?
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You should buy a bicycle, then you won't have any money left over to put in a bank account. And therefor not need the bicycle.